36 Responses to “If atheists can accept that concepts like morality, logic, etc…can exist without scientific evidence, then?”

1. By Greg on Apr 9, 2009 | Reply

   We have scientific evidence of morality… it occurs naturally.
   Piranhas, while in a feeding frenzy, don't eat each other. Bats share food with sick bats.

   We have evidence for logic. 1+1=2 while 3=/=1

   I mean, I recognize the "concept" of God, but it only stretches as far as human tradition is concerned. There's nothing else out there to go on except what humans dream up about it.
   References :

2. By Noki the Wanderer on Apr 9, 2009 | Reply

   BRAIN… HURTS…

   http://www.plognark.com/Art/Sketches/Blogsketches/2008/thestupiditburns.jpg
   References :
   We have scientific evidence of morality, just not absolute morality – how am I going to deny that I feel bad when I hurt someone? That's social and genetic conditioning right there. Already explained.

   Morals do not exist inherently, yes, but they do exist as long as humans do. God does not, because he is NOT A CONCEPT, like all the things you just outlined. The concept of god exists, yes, but that does not mean that god the deity exists.

   Since morality and logic are just concepts, well, they exist in their own right. God is not just a concept – surely you, a christian, should know? Supposedly he is a being.

3. By tigris on Apr 9, 2009 | Reply

   Sorry, there is lots of scientific evidence to the value of morals and its evolution. Plenty of studies in all kinds of animals from insects, birds to great apes. Social insect societies are mainly stable due to the degree of relatedness of its members. They punish cheaters (can supply references on demand).

   Read about inclusive fitness for a starter. Get some basic knowledge of animal behavior and biology.
   References :

4. By Jeremy on Apr 9, 2009 | Reply

   That's a …. crap argument.
   References :

5. By Brian on Apr 9, 2009 | Reply

   You still don't know what an atheist is do you?

   And concepts like morality are easily evolutionarily explained. All social species benefit from some version of morality. Ours is more complex because we have higher brain capacity than most animals.

   And logic comes from observation.
   References :

6. By Brain Blast! on Apr 9, 2009 | Reply

   Same reason I don't accept the concept of Harry Potter

   Morality and logic are mental traits. God's existence is not
   References :

7. By Doya K on Apr 9, 2009 | Reply

   wtf what are you talking about morality haves tuns of "evidence" and more logic behind them.
   References :

8. By OmniPresent on Apr 9, 2009 | Reply

   nope.

   morals are a personal choice. not everyone shares the same morals.

   i never said i reject anything that isn't scientifically proved. way to speculate.
   i form my own opinions.

   i'm terribly sorry you can't respect that.
   References :

9. By Tectonic French Toast (w/syrup) on Apr 9, 2009 | Reply

   Just like I'm accepting the fact that someone with basic intelligence wrote this, even though I have yet to see any scientific evidence.
   References :

10. By kumorifox on Apr 9, 2009 | Reply

    Morality is part of emotions, and emotions can be proven.

    And logic is just a word. It is a fact that some things are seen as logical.

    Why are you so scared of atheists? Does it bother you that atheists don't follow your train of thought?
    References :

11. By eimerian on Apr 9, 2009 | Reply

    Nope.
    Morality manifests. logic manifests. Your God doesnt.
    Sorry.
    References :

12. By THE MIGHTY RA on Apr 9, 2009 | Reply

    They exist by being handed down from generation to generation morals come about from culture not religion.
    References :

13. By Chris C. on Apr 9, 2009 | Reply

    Morality and logic are unproven?

    I think killing is wrong. That's morality proven.
    I will not stab myself with a pencil because I know it will hurt. That's logic proven.

    Morality and logic exist. Man just gave it a name.
    Idiot lol…
    References :

14. By Lime Kitty [Atheati Emperor] on Apr 9, 2009 | Reply

    Why do you assume all atheists are scientists
    References :
    You cant block the Atheati

15. By Flame On! on Apr 9, 2009 | Reply

    Actually, science can't disprove a deity, what makes us lose faith in your god are the contradictions and fallacies in religion.
    References :

16. By Sweet Voltaire on Apr 9, 2009 | Reply

    Morality is genetic. Notice how people with chemical imbalances in the brain are those who we consider to be "immoral." And logic is just the result of a developed brain. We know that 1+1=2 because of our brain.
    References :

17. By Lh T atheati underling on Apr 9, 2009 | Reply

    There is evidence of morality.
    There is evidence of logic.
    There is no evidence of god.

    And you're sadly mistaken if you think atheists have not already studied religion. It is not something we dismiss lightly.
    References :

18. By Citizen of the Cosmos Returns on Apr 9, 2009 | Reply

    Yes, morality is a concept that humankind creates and collectively agrees on, it does not exist in the objective external sense, because of the "ought/is" fallacy. Thank you for once again admitting that God is an abstract concept.
    References :

19. By !truth! on Apr 9, 2009 | Reply

    How can believers accept this type of human sufferings and deaths of innocent people under the watch of God; http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090409/ap_on_re_eu/eu_italy_earthquake
    References :

20. By Matthew Hopkins on Apr 9, 2009 | Reply

    …because you would say the claims about morality and logic and so on are on par with the claims about the various magic men supposedly living in the sky?
    References :
    Uh huh.

21. By Reba on Apr 9, 2009 | Reply

    Why do you keep asking questions like that. Just because someone believes in something else it doesn't mean that you can argue them into believing in your God. If you believe then why don't you focus on you believing and worry less about other people. And what exactly do you think that morality means?
    References :

22. By disciple4christ43 on Apr 9, 2009 | Reply

    very good question in which they can not honestly answer because they Truly know in there hearts God exists but choose to rebel for whatever reason and it is easier to say he doesn't exist than to explain why you would not want to server Him.
    References :
    my opinion

23. By LauraLorLor on Apr 9, 2009 | Reply

    That's one of the worst arguments I've heard to date…
    References :

24. By Fallen Angel on Apr 9, 2009 | Reply

    There is scientific fact about morality and logic, study psychology and you'll see…

    God and logic/morality are in 2 different leagues…
    But, atheists scared of studying religion? Most atheists WERE religious, that's why they're atheists.

    Not to mention many of the smartest people alive are atheist.
    References :

25. By Monkeyhead el Banditos on Apr 9, 2009 | Reply

    We know they exist scientifically.

    That's what Episodic and Semantic memory are.

    You are sooooo out of your depth.

    TOTAL FAIL
    References :

26. By River Euphrates on Apr 9, 2009 | Reply

    Your entire post is a logical fallacy.

    Morality doesn't exist.

    It is created by mankind, and reinforced by the society you live in.

    Not all cultures have the same morals – what is completely acceptable here is condemned elsewhere, and vice-versa.
    References :

27. By Jolene on Apr 9, 2009 | Reply

    Because those are abstract ideas.
    Morality, logic, etc. were concepts created by man,
    and they are interpreted differently by different people.
    (however, there is proof they exist, see above me, a lot of good points above my answer)

    morality is different from one culture to the next,
    each person's logic is different from the others,

    So, if you are saying God is an abstract idea, why don't most theists accept the fact that who he is and what he wants can be interpreted differently. Instead of saying that you know the TRUTH of God?

    http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=Ag8VqLKpoz4U9d2VIo3z0XPty6IX;_ylv=3?qid=20090409100125AAwqbQR
    References :

28. By rynosin14 on Apr 9, 2009 | Reply

    Morality is a personal thing. Every one has different morals. For proof, ask your yourself this, should i burn this cross then go kill 20 people? Your answers SHOULD be no (i hope). This is proof of your morals. Tell "god" that you are going to kill 20 people, will he stop you? NO. Because he isn't real.
    References :
    A logical atheistic mind.

29. By skepsis on Apr 9, 2009 | Reply

    The evidence for logic is that, when logical principles are followed, reliable conclusions result. The principles themselves are derived from experimentation. The same is true of "morality", or rather ethics. Social experience shows us which ways of relating to others cause benefit or harm. Often it is not specific acts that are the problems but intentions or methods. The best ideas are always improved by actual experience.

    The concept of God cannot be tested, because God provides no evidence for his existence, pronouncements or actions. A believer has no experiential advantage over an unbeliever. All supposed differences are reserved to an "afterlife", which is also an untestable idea.
    References :

30. By Ahaha.. yeah right on Apr 9, 2009 | Reply

    First of all there actually IS scientific evidence of where these 'behaviors' came from. Anyone can accept the 'concept' of god.. or the IDEA of a god or gods. but this is where LOGIC comes in… it simply ISNT LOGICAL behavior to actually BELIEVE in the mythlogical charcters created by people.

    Man did CREATE these behaviors, survival of man did. I actually have studies multiple religions around the world and came to the conclusion that they are all pretty much BS and the only purpse behind them is GREED.
    References :

31. By Opus on Apr 9, 2009 | Reply

    "Morality" is not an omnipotent being credited with forming the universe. It's a code of conduct that predates organized religion. Your question makes no sense.
    References :

32. By Seeker on Apr 9, 2009 | Reply

    Monkeys and apes have a sense of morality and the rudimentary ability to tell right from wrong, according to new research.

    In a series of studies scientists have found that monkeys and apes can make judgments about fairness, offer altruistic help and empathise when a fellow animal is ill or in difficulties. They even appear to have consciences and the ability to remember obligations.

    The research implies that morality is not a uniquely human quality and suggests it arose through evolution. That could mean the strength of our consciences is partly determined by our genes.

    Such findings are likely to antagonise fundamentalist religious groups. Some believe the ability to form moral judgments is a God-given quality that sets humans apart.

    The scientists say, however, that the evidence is clear. “I am not arguing that non-human primates are moral beings but there is enough evidence for the following of social rules to agree that some of the stepping stones towards human morality can be found in other animals,” said Frans de Waal, professor of psychology at Emory University in Georgia in the United States.

    In papers at the annual meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) this weekend de Waal described experiments on monkeys and apes to see if they understood the idea of fairness.

    The animals were asked to perform a set of simple tasks and then rewarded with food or affection. The rewards were varied, seemingly at random. De Waal found the animals had an acute sense of fairness and objected strongly when others were rewarded more than themselves for the same task, often sulking and refusing to take part any further.

    Another study looked at altruism in chimps – and found they were often willing to help others even when there was no obvious reward. “Chimpanzees spontaneously help both humans and each other in carefully controlled tests,” said de Waal.

    Other researchers, said de Waal, have found the same qualities in capuchin monkeys, which also show “spontaneous prosocial tendencies”, meaning they are keen to share food and other gifts with other monkeys, for the pleasure of giving.

    “Everything else being equal, they prefer to reward a companion together with themselves rather than just themselves,” he said. “The research suggests that giving is self-rewarding for monkeys.”

    Related research found primates can remember individuals who have done them a favour and will make an effort to repay them.

    De Waal, who has written a book called Primates and Philosophers, said morality appeared to have evolved in the same way as organs such as the eye and the heart, through natural selection.

    The debate over whether animals can tell right from wrong and make moral choices dates back to Charles Darwin, originator of the theory of evolution.

    He suggested that when sexual reproduction first evolved it forced animals to develop codes of behaviour that became built into their genes. In humans these instincts developed into a sense of right and wrong. This fitted with his view that humans were derived from animals – a view fiercely opposed by the church at the time.

    The big question now is why, alone among the primates, humans have developed morality to such a high level. It implies that humans were once subjected to some kind of powerful evolutionary pressure to develop a conscience.

    Some researchers believe we could owe our consciences to climate change and, in particular, to a period of intense global warming between 50,000 and 800,000 years ago. The proto-humans living in the forests had to adapt to living on hostile open plains, where they would have been easy prey for formidable predators such as big cats.

    This would have forced them to devise rules for hunting.
    References :
    Jonathan Leake, Science Editor , The Sunday Times, February 15 2009 (Part of article).

33. By Daphne the Magic Pillow :-D on Apr 9, 2009 | Reply

    Because there's historical evidence that laws and moral codes existed before Christianity or many other modern religions were around. Buddhism isn't a theistic religion, yet they have a moral code and set of values by which to live your life, similar to Christianity. Buddhism is older than Christianity.

    I have studdied religion, read most of the Christian bible, read the Torah, learned about ancient religions since 7th grad,e and also read alot of summarizations of other religions on google. Learning it only strengthened my beliefs (which don't include a god). I study for tests and read books all the time, studying your religion is hardly intimidating.

    Yes morality is a concept made by man, which is why the concept exists. The CONCEPT of there being a god is a thought that exists all over the world. The CONCEPT of morality exists all over the world. Morality is a word invented by the english language which is 80% Latin, 20% Greek. The word doesn't define the CONCEPT, the concept defines the word. The question atheists have is: Why behave moraly just because you're promised a reward after death? Why not behave moraly jsut for the sake of being good and the continuence of society in your life time?

    Sorry, but to me it seems a little selfish to only be "good" because someone promises me a place to stay after death. I'd rather be good for the sake of being good and because that's how I'd want to be treated by other people around me. It's an eye for an eye thing. If I don't disrupt society, hopefully I'll set an example and others won't disrupt me.
    References :
    agnostic atheist

34. By doomie on Apr 9, 2009 | Reply

    Google "evolution of morality"

    Tectonic French Toast – I don't know. That's a pretty big assumption, especially considering the evidence to the contrary.
    References :

35. By Josh A on Apr 9, 2009 | Reply

    k so when will you most theist understand ATHEISM IS A BELIEVE THAT THERE IS NO GODS NOTHING ELSE JUST THEY DONT BELIEVE IN GOD THEY DONT BELIEVE EVERYTHING NEEDS TO BE SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN i dont know how many times i've had to remind you but atheist know morality exists because it is in a way explained scientifically where ever you live is what morality you live by if you live in an area where denouncing jesus is there believe then its morally ok there but you dont find it morally ok to do that or to punish children the way they do in 3rd world countries is a normal thing to them but if i saw it i would probably hit the parents for hitting their kid
    References :

36. By dwgriffith101 on Apr 9, 2009 | Reply

    Morality as a concept is fine and god as a concept is fine but you keep trying to shove down our throats that god is real. either you think he is real or a concept, he can't be both, which shows us another example of the lack of brain power of fundies.
    References :