Religion, Politics and the End of the World (9/9)
Written by admin on March 7, 2009 – 11:06 am -Tags: atheism, atheists, christianity, debate, Harris, Hedges, iraq, islam, Muslim, politics, religion, Robert, Sam, Scheer, Truthdig
Posted in Atheism in Politics | 25 Comments »
By spiltteeth on Mar 7, 2009 | Reply
Your so right! The …
Your so right! The Holocaust survivers and seculat jews were jolly folks looking for a nice vacation spot!
By Beauwrath on Mar 7, 2009 | Reply
So, religion should …
So, religion should have a hand in politics? What if that religion in your government was not the religion you subsribe to?
By DkOn24 on Mar 7, 2009 | Reply
god bless honesty …
god bless honesty and secularism
By ChessMatch on Mar 7, 2009 | Reply
The moderator …
The moderator Robert Scheer embarasses himself more everytime he interjects, but apparently has not an iota of self-control – unlkike Hariis who calmly puts up with 2 douches screeching at him the whole time.
By corcman19 on Mar 7, 2009 | Reply
Hedges is so far …
Hedges is so far off the mark at times, it’s worrying. Is he seriously suggesting that the settler movement in Israel is born out of despair?
By luerwulf on Mar 7, 2009 | Reply
“maybe a part of …
“maybe a part of the answer is accountability. Self accountability vs. accountability that eventually rests with a deity; are actions accountable to self or with a god? “It’s not me that wants this, it’s god”. Accountability of a person’s decisions/actions should remain on that person’s shoulders…it shouldn’t be deferred to god.” -
I think this factor is so often overlooked as to be generally invisible within most perspectives on the topic of the functioning of religion.
By TmShady1 on Mar 7, 2009 | Reply
Sam Harris is the …
Sam Harris is the man. His conclusion killed. What’s ridiculous is ridiculous, end of story.
By SheepDip on Mar 7, 2009 | Reply
RE: the ” …
RE: the “moderator’s” question of is there a fundamental difference btw bombings in Vietnam,etc. vs religiously driven suicide bombings. maybe a part of the answer is accountability. Self accountability vs. accountability that eventually rests with a deity; are actions accountable to self or with a god? “It’s not me that wants this, it’s god”. Accountability of a person’s decisions/actions should remain on that person’s shoulders…it shouldn’t be deferred to god.
Cheers for uploading the vid
By joob44 on Mar 7, 2009 | Reply
Okham’s Razor = Sam …
Okham’s Razor = Sam wins
most evidence = sam wins
relevance = depends what you mean
Chris definitely had a few good points like about the Vietnam war and US policies in the middle East. But those weren’t arguments against anything Sam was saying. They’re both right however Sam was much more to the point and Chris was enveloped in a lot of non sense and irrelevant opinions to Sam’s argument. Great discussion though.
By niinja2 on Mar 7, 2009 | Reply
the fact is the …
the fact is the accusations for being a witch was not because ” bible tells me so” because bible also tells love your neighbor. if you did not like someone back then all you needed to do is say that he or she is a witch and it would cause problems for him. It was not bible based , it was based on superstitions witch every nation or tribe had at those times irrelevant what the bible said.
why would do courts base morality on few tablets but not on the whole bible?
By niinja2 on Mar 7, 2009 | Reply
sorry english is …
sorry english is not my native language.
when i say secular courts i dont mean atheistic, i mean government courts.
the problem in the time of inquisition is that people were “christians” but they were not acting christian like,their mentality was quite pagan and very superstitios. The most of the witches suffering was after the plague that killed 1/3 of the population, someone just needed to be blamed for anything bad that was happening. It was an age of panic.
By KeganStewart on Mar 7, 2009 | Reply
It’s amazing how ” …
It’s amazing how “Sam Harris is ignorant”?
I suppose I would consider your argument had you proper knowledge of basic grammar.
You may also want to consider the Christian morality based on a couple tablets of stone which was the foundation for said “secular” courts at that time.
By niinja2 on Mar 7, 2009 | Reply
its amazing how sam …
its amazing how sam hariss is ignorant, church inquisition killed 6000 people over 500 years, but secular or goverment courts and vilage mobs killed 100 000 witches. church tried to control the murdering by placing inquisitors in charge of judging. there are reports that people blasphemed just to get out of secular courts to inquisitional. It was not due to religion , it was due to superstion witch was actually discouraged by well educated inquisitors.
By pp0u50f3 on Mar 7, 2009 | Reply
“i still think …
“i still think religions are a bumch of crap” finally something we can agree on! yep, you’re right we should not de-humanize them, agreed.
are they the majority? i honestly hope you are right, but as a fellow atheist you will know that we should only be interested in the truth, and i’m unsure how many muslims really want the rest of the world to convert to islam, hopefully not that many
take it easy bud.
By french0atheist on Mar 7, 2009 | Reply
Actually, moderate …
Actually, moderate muslims (and they are the majority) rationalize what is in the Qur’an by saying that even though infidels deserve death, Allah is ultimately the one to decide when and how they die. I still think religions are a bunch of crap, but I also don’t think we should demonize and de-humanize muslims. Let’s just let the christian right do that.
By pp0u50f3 on Mar 7, 2009 | Reply
yeah probably …
yeah probably questions do confuse me.
1) sure i agree with SOME of what your saying but i think sam would argue (and i would agree) that some muslims simply want to kill the appostate because they want to get to paradise. how do we know this? because they tell us all the time.
2) the point i would make is that the Qur’an tells you that the infidel should be murdered countless times times so it really does matter what people believe about the universe.
youtube captions are to short…
By pp0u50f3 on Mar 7, 2009 | Reply
great, i was only …
great, i was only joking, but i think you’re wrong anyway:
Godwins law: “As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one”
The rule does not make any statement about whether any particular reference or comparison to Adolf Hitler or the Nazis might be appropriate, but only asserts that one arising is increasingly probable.
like i said just a joke.
By french0atheist on Mar 7, 2009 | Reply
Also, Godwin’s law …
Also, Godwin’s law only applies when the comparison to Nazism in not legitimate. It was legitimate in my argument, in that it is the way we (the US) are portrayed by fundamentalists in the muslim world.
By french0atheist on Mar 7, 2009 | Reply
Was it all the …
Was it all the question marks? I’m sorry, that tends to stress people out.
1-Neither would I normally. But back me into a corner, and my opinion may change. Not out of hatred, but out of not seeing an alternative. What’s so hard to understand about that? Again: Fear, not hatred…
2-Right… but there are literalists and moderates everywhere.
My point was that totalitarian regimes use propaganda to depict the US as evil, not islam.
You are falling prey to christian right propaganda right now…
By pp0u50f3 on Mar 7, 2009 | Reply
wow chill out dude! …
wow chill out dude! you’re practicly the embodyment of a cyberfreak: angry plus the use of godwin’s law! 1) I personaly would not advocate killing medical personal or civillians whether they lived in Nazi germany or not, hence i think the dresdon bombings where immoral
2) islam is neither country or political regime, it is a religion, and the penalty for leaving it, as mandated by the Qur’an, is death, i think that qualifies it for totalitarianism.
but seriosly you need to chillax, and breath
By pp0u50f3 on Mar 7, 2009 | Reply
woops should read: …
woops should read:
islam is more divisive than other worldviews
By french0atheist on Mar 7, 2009 | Reply
1- No, it does not. …
1- No, it does not. Would you not advocate the killing of non-combatants if you thought this was your last resort? I think any of the nations destroyed by Nazi Germany would have been justified in using suicide bombing against German non-combatants.
2-I’m not trying to defend Islam, I’m trying to have a rational discussion. You should try it. Islam is not totalitarian. Do you think islam is country? Or a political regime?
“Islam is more device” wtf are u trying to say?
By pp0u50f3 on Mar 7, 2009 | Reply
1) i didn’t say the …
1) i didn’t say the rest of the population i said 80% (in the case of lebanon). Supporting the killing of inocent people with nails and rat poison logical entails tacit suport of hatred, surely?
2) how is that a deffence of islam? Islam is “totalitarian” and “christians don’t embrace killing inocent people like Islam does”. Its like saying “non-murderers don’t embrace the murder of people they way murderers do” yeah so? you’ve proved my original point, Islam is more device than other worldviews
By french0atheist on Mar 7, 2009 | Reply
1-I never said the …
1-I never said the ones making the bombs & blowing themselves up (basically the fundamentalists / sociopaths) are hatred free. They’re obviously not. But you can’t say that the rest of the civilian population support hatred. They support the defense of their faith, and of their people.
2- No, I’m not referring to a poll, I’m referring to the well known and documented rampant propaganda totalitarian regimes use to control their people. Christianity does not embrace martyrdom the way islam does.
By pp0u50f3 on Mar 7, 2009 | Reply
welcome to the …
welcome to the debate.
1) If you think placing nails and rat poison in your homemade bomb to cause maximum causualities is not a support of hatred then i can’t help you.
2) “these people are told their whole life that we are the aggerssor” how do you know this? hopefully your refering to an unbiased poll?, further there a christians in the exact same situation it’s practically a science experiment, and yet you don’t find any christian suicide bombers.