It kinda pisses me off from both sides. Christians, if we know the truth should treat those without it with love?. Atheists, if we christians are bafoons and serve a zombie diety, should you as the truth bearers bring us out of darkness so that your community and children wont be taught about our nonsense? If either of you wish to teach the other, LOVE is the fundamental thing. Persecution on either side will only gender strife. In all love. Hassan Shabazz

well said

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If we are but random quirks of nature, then in the grand scheme of nature, whether we live or die does not matter. Certainly it matters to us (survival) and our loved ones. But, IN THE GRAND SCHEME OF NATURE, our life is meaningless, thus leads to nihlism.

Immanuel Kant's reductio ad absurdum according to which all rationalism reduces to nihilism pretty much follows that Atheism carried out to it's logical end leads to nihilism.

Nihilists believe there is no reasonable proof of the existence of a higher ruler or creator, thus a "true morality" is unknown, therefore, life has no truth, and no meaning.

That is what a lot of this ruckas is about. A philosopher stated in reply to my question that philosophy is grossly nihilistic at this time. It is arcane. Just talk to any 20 philosophers selling their ideas, all pointing in different directions.

Philosophy is important, and it is good if it begins with a first cause justification that life is precious, since a creator exists.
Eagleflyer, you did not read the question and your emotional prejudices are showing.
Jessy, we are talking about 2 different things. An atheist does not have to be nihlistic or purposeless. However, philosophy cannot justify purpose or meaning in life without a creator, since, in the grand scheme of nature, it matters not if you live or die.

Also, as an ex-atheist, I used the same arguement, that life is more precious if there is no creator, since once your life is gone, it is gone. Again, that is true for an individual. But in the grand scheme of nature, it is meaningless.

However, if there is a creator, a creator creates for a reason, thus, I am created for a reason, my life is precious, as is yours, and it does matter, in the grand scheme of nature.
Sandy, I did not have room to write more, so, please excuse the brevity. However, your answer was very good.

J.P., Thanks for your reply. However, you do need to explain yourself, please, I have never heard this before:

And nihilism does have a pair of moral absolutes, created by evolution itself, as it happens: empathy and altruism.

I do not think these behavours of some people are moral absolutes.

The point I tried to make, is if you think in terms of yourself, great importance can be attached to life. If you think in terms of the universe, nothing matters. This is not rocket science logic. The conclusion is inexorable, and in my opinion, is killing our civilization.
JP: Thanks for your reply again. I will send you an email after I reply to it. Not enough space here.

I do think we want the same things, peace, prosperity, security, family, friends, good stewardship, etc. We just see that the means to get there are different.

Last night I read Shelly's essays on Atheism and Deism. The points he made were deadly, on the mark, and one-sided. I would never believe in the God he imagines. Look, religionism is deadly, no doubt about it, he shows it. But, I also am aware of 2 sole commandments: Love God and Love others, and it being stated that all other principles come from this. That is a good thing. He never talks about the good done by many people of faith. Nor do many people on this site.
Timeponderer: Thanks for your reply.

I agree that people are not nihlistic, regardless of belief or lack of belief. Our psychology does not normally take us there. You are 100% right when the box is drawn around ourselves, family, community, even nation or globe.

The point I am making, and it is not mine alone, though I fully agree with it, since I deeply understand it, is that in the grand scheme of a materialistic universe, life is meaningless, thus, philosophically, life can only be given a nihlistic justification.

To me, philosophy is crucial to civilization. It should align with describing how people should live purposefully, morally and well. It cannot and does not do that. It is a la carte and everthing goes.

What of the political philosophy of brutal dictators and genetic cleansing. What is its root?

I firmly believe that belief in a creator is vital to the health of a civilization, with freedom of religion, for politicized religion is deadly.

Well, I agree with you to an extent. But you see the possible pitfalls. A philosopher who does not believe in a creator would just be positing that "first cause justification," and the rest of his or her philosophy would spin out in weird and indefensible ways.

But I guess that you're not really saying that. You are saying that for a philosophy to be good, the philosopher must believe in a creator…and that all philosophy written by philosophers who do not believe is bad philosophy.

I agree with this, but it is difficult to argue such a point to someone who is a proponent of certain philosophies by certain nonbelievers. This is because if one does not know a creator, then one cannot see the forest…and cannot think, really. What I mean by "cannot think" is that their thoughts cannot normally be drawn out to their logical conclusions, because the proponents themselves simply refuse–or are unable–to accept those logical conclusions. For example, "Morality comes from God or it comes from man. If it comes from God, it is good. If it comes from man, its basis is bad." These people believe there is some inherent goodness in man, ignoring the evidence of their senses (and, lo, the evidence of their newscasts), and just urging ever so strenuously that people are good. It is worse than circular logic. It is delusion.

And these are the same folks who will call people of faith deluded. Many people of faith can plainly see the blazingly apparent evidence of their senses: that man is seriously disturbed.

But, yeah, atheism carried out to its logical end is nihilism. Too bad that many atheists are not equipped to carry thoughts to their logical conclusions. Standing ever so defiantly in an indefensible position: "I am good!" Notice that they will allow for the possibility that others are bad, and if only others would see as "clearly" as they, then others would become good too.

Ignoring the logical conclusion–yet again–that if others could become good on their own, they would have already done it. And ignoring also that if humans had the power to be all good, humans would be all good. If it is in our nature to be good, then why do we so ardently go against our nature at least seven times a day?

Ach.

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I personally believe that it is hard to find any productivity going on becuase of distinct differences in Views which are impossible to conjoin. Therefore I believe that there should be a seperation of this section be put into place because of the existing animosity presented in this section of Yahoo! Answers. I believe that many people forget the purpose of this is to have questions answered! I believe that to each our own questions may come at a discerning conflict with other views. Therefore I believe that These Subsections be Put in Place.

Religion and Spirituality
- Christianity
- Islam
-Judaism
cont. until Bahi'a
- Atheism & Agnosticism

I want to see opinions on this matter. For those opinions an Ay or Nay would be helpful too.
I do understand that questions are being answered. Im just viewing it as a decrease in productivity. Even I falter at this and I always end up writing things about other religions that I don't care for but my answer is wholly useless to the questioner.

When faith is involved, animosity is inescapable. Even within religions, there are many various sects, and arguments betweens these sects can be even worse than between religions as a whole. I say keep it as is.

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Jupiter is an entirely respectable God. There is just as much proof of His existence as that of any other God, so why are there so many conservative atheists? This smells of rank bigotry.

Jupiter is renowned for the power of His lightning bolts. OK, so He played around with a few nymphs and maybe an animal or two. But, hey! Nobody’s perfect! What about Bush in college?

At least, Jupiter was married and had a Holy Family. We have proof that he wasn't gay. That should count for something with conservative atheists.

And he raised not One, but several Children, all of Whom took their place in the Heavens. Doesn't a large family count with conservative atheists?

And Jupiter remained with His wife, Juno, in spite of Her constant scolding about little peccadilloes. That should also appeal to conservatives.

This is a nation in which no religion is persecuted. We should stop this discrimination.

You conservative atheists are just bigoted hypocrites. Shame on you!
(1) Sun
A conservative atheist is a person who votes for Bush and doesn't believe in the existence of Jupiter. Think about it for a little while. Eventually, it will make sense.
(2) printninja
Wrong! There is no reason at all why an individual cannot pick and choose which god he/she will accept and which they will dismiss.
Some people believe in Jehovah and deny the existence of Jupiter. With Cicero, it was the other way around. And he could write books!
(3) Chris Stanton
Are you a Jupiter atheist or not? That was the only question. Why can't people understand a question and answer it?
printninja (again)
That makes as much sense as saying that a believer must believe in all supernatural entities, known or unknown.

So, give me a reason for not believing in Jupiter. What proof do you have that Jupiter does not exist?
Allen t
I'm talking logic! You didn't answer the question. Either swim or get out of the pool.
Jupiter was falsely accused of having an affair with Ganymede, but denied it entirely saying, "I am not gay! I was never gay!". There is no record of any guilty plea.

The truth is that he wanted a good looking boy as a cub bearer. A girl would distract from serious concentration on the wine and an ugly boy would spoil the appetite.

Furthermore, for your information, "smarty", it was Minos, the Cretan, who ravished poor Ganymede. Check Wikipedia or Britannica.

Shame on you for slandering a god!
SMKeller
Not only the Sun, but the Son of Jupiter, this one having a resurrection every morning!

Actually, more people worship Apollo than all the other gods put together. The state of Florida is dedicated to Him.

Give me that really Old Time Religion!

Atheists dismiss all gods equally (and some people.)

EDIT:
"Wrong! There is no reason at all why an individual cannot pick and choose which god he/she will accept and which they will dismiss."

Atheists, by definition, are not allowed to believe in gods. That's a great reason. So there!

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Atheism is the state of disbelief or non-belief[1] in the existence of a deity or deities

So, by being a non-believer, you believe in something (namely, disbelief), and by claiming that existence doesn't exist, what are you claiming?

Nothing is nothing, a lack of something. Your argument turns nothing it into something. It's fallacious and silly.

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This question is always on my mind…

Does the U.S. really allow a true practice of Freedom of Religion and From?

Maybe I'm just pessimistic today… or maybe I just feel defeated… It just seems that Religion is used by so many people as the centerfold of everything… laws… ethics… family… schools… work… politics…

I feel as if Religion is constantly being shoved down my throat… the main religion of course is Christianty… Does anyone else feel this way?? Does anyone see any freedom of/from religion in the U.S. because I sure don't…

*Highlander*

….Atheism my anti-drug….
I feel as if we are supposed to be a secular nation… but everyone seems to have forgotten that…

Oh, I completely agree with you. It seems that you have "freedom of religion" in the U.S. only as long as you are a Christian of some sort.

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Christians WHY do you come here if you already know the truth? Atheist WHY do you come here when you know these dingbats wont listen to you? Is it fun to harrass

To spread the good news to them. That they do have to give their money to crooks any more and to set them free from stupidity.

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Atheists keep saying that religion is evil and dangerous, that religion is the cause of many wars–if not all wars. Atheists seem to have a particular dislike of Christianity. Islam comes in for a lot of atheist criticism too. But Christianity and Islam are heirs to Judaism.

Do atheists blame the Jews for the vast majority of evil in today's world?
devlsadvoct: How is asking a serious question an ad hominem?

Actually, as an atheist, I can say that no most atheists don't even believe religion is evil in itself, dangerous yes, but atheists don't usually believe in objective evil, so they can't actually say that religion is evil.

The stance of most atheists like myself is that religion is dangerous when mixed with politics, something that atheists try to combat both in this country and others around the world. The only country though in which Judaism mixes with politics significantly though is in Israel, and considering that the same problem is occuring in all the surrounding countries, Israel itself can't shoulder the blame for the conflict, although it's religious politics have contributed significantly to the problems in the region.

As for personal belief, atheists do generally believe people would be better off if they didn't have blind faith in religion. However, no atheist would believe an individual Christian, Jew or Muslim is either evil or dangerous except maybe by actions that have little to do with religion.

So the short answer is that Israel as a somewhat religious state have brought about some instability in the world, but alot of other countries have brought about much greater evils through religious influence over history, so really Judaism doesn't take the blame for much. And if Judaism didn't exist, some other religion other then Christianity would have dominated instead, so nobody really blames them for spawning other religions as they were created from a vacuum of a need to believe in the first place.

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How about atheism? I know that's not a religion…but are there more people "becoming" atheists…and does this somehow have an impact on the relevance of the statement that "Islam is the fastest growing religion"? I saw an explanation somewhere that has something to do with Islam and Atheism but I forgot the details. I'm looking for serious answers thanks!
"robgentl…" yes I forgot the details u superhuman being.

anyways, I personally can't see the relevance of this statistics because like some of u here said, it depends how many kids are born and at what rate within the Muslim community.

Then again, I guess I'm talking abt conversions…?
"Pammy", just to point out, I never said Atheists were a "growing threat"… I guess I was bit confusing, sorry for that. What I wanted to know was the growth rate of Atheistic conversions (if there's such a term) in relation to Islam as the fastest growing religion. Are Atheistic conversions included in the picture here? Although presently a tiny number, new 'Atheist converts' could be growing at a fast rate too.

disclaimer: I'm not in any way "representing" a side here. Just looking for answers objectively.

I am Agnostic Atheist if that helps clarify anything.

Increase in the world religions from 1934 to 1984.

An article in Reader’s Digest ‘Almanac’, year book 1986, gave the statistics of the increase of percentage of the major religions of the world in half a century from 1934 to 1984. This article also appeared in ‘The Plain Truth’ magazine. At the top was Islam, which increased by 235%, and Christianity had increased only by 47%.

Islam is the fastest growing religion in America and Europe.

Today the fastest growing religion in America is Islam. The fastest growing religion in Europe in Islam.

FOR THOSE WHO SAY ISLAM IS A CULT:
The two meanings of the word ‘cult’ according to the Oxford dictionary are as follows:
1) “A way of life, an attitude, an idea etc. that has become very popular”.
2) “A small group of people who have extreme religious beliefs and who are not part of any established religion”.

By referring to Islam as a cult, if you intend to imply the first meaning, then yes Islam is a way of life – in fact it is ‘THE way of life’ prescribed for humankind by the Creator. I am aware that most widely, the second meaning of the word cult is implied. In that context, Islam is not a cult.

Many people have a misconception that Islam is a new religion and Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was the founder of Islam. However, let me clarify that Islam is not the name of some unique religion presented for the first time by Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) who should, on that account be called the founder of Islam.

The Qur’an states that Islam – the complete submission of man before his one and only Unique Creator – is the one and only faith and way of life consistently revealed by God to humankind from the very beginning. Noah, Solomon, David, Abraham, Moses, Isaac and Jesus (pbut) – prophets who appeared at different times and places – all propagated the same faith and conveyed the same message of Tawheed (Oneness of God), Risaalat (Prophethood) and Aakhirah (the Hereafter). These prophets of God were not founders of different religions to be named after them. They were each reiterating the message and faith of their predecessors.

However, Muhammad (pbuh) was the last Prophet of God. God revived through him the same genuine faith which had been conveyed by all His Prophets. This original message was earlier corrupted and split into various religions by people of different ages, who indulged in interpolations and admixture. These alien elements were eliminated by God, and Islam – in its pure and original form – was transmitted to humankind through Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

Since there was to be no messenger after Muhammad (pbuh), the Book revealed to him (i.e. the Glorious Qur’an) was preserved word for word so that it should be a source of guidance for all times.

Thus the religion of all the prophets was ‘total submission to God’s will’ and one word for that in the Arabic language is ‘Islam’. Abraham and Jesus (peace be upon them) too were Muslims, as Allah testifies in Al-Qur'an 3:67 and 3:52 respectively.

Islam is embraced by so many humans in all centuries because it is the Truth and it provides practical and comprehensive solutions to problems of humankind. Islam not only teaches good things but also shows practical ways of achieving that state of goodness.

Your surprise regarding many people embracing Islam is justified. Today, though Islam happens to be the fastest growing religion in the world, it also happens to be the religion about which people have maximum number of misconceptions. This is largely because of the virulent propaganda by the media about Islam.

A Christian surveyor, Professor Edward reported in the Time Magazine of April 16, 1979 that in a span of 150 years, from 1800 CE to 1950 CE “over 60,000 books have been written against Islam by the Christian West.” Now, it is questionable, who has initiated, nurtured and collected the hatred which you have referred to, the Muslims or the Christian West?

Many are surprised that despite such propaganda being made against Islam, it still happens to be the fastest growing religion in today’s times. It is so, on the merits of its superior and noble teachings. Says Allah swt in the Glorious Qur'an:
“They (the non-Muslim enemies and critics of Islam) plot and plan, and Allah too plans; but the best of planners is Allah”.
(Al-Qur'an 8:30)

You have advised the Muslims not to attack non-Muslims; I request you to direct your advice to those authorities, who only claim to be ‘peaceful, peace-loving people’ and ‘peace-keepers of the world’, but ironically have attacked thousands of innocent Muslims under the theme ‘War on terror’. The noted writer Arundhati Roy states: "So now we know. Pigs are horses. Girls are boys. War is Peace."

The terrorist acts attributed to Muslim suspects, should not be attributed to Islam or the Muslims in general but to individual human weaknesses. Such human failings occur among all religious and ethnic groups. Recorded history has not witnessed an incident similar to the ‘Holocaust’. However, one is not expected to and should not attribute the holocaust to Christianity or to Christians in general.

A number of skeptics have made comments about Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). Skeptics allege that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was “a violent man, a man of war”. Some further state that "Jesus set the example for love, as did Moses … Muhammad set an opposite example” (remember Jerry Falwell?). These skeptics somehow fail to realize that far from being a man of war, “…he (Muhammad) must be called the saviour of humanity”, as described thus by George Bernard Shaw.

Though the portrayal of Moses and Jesus (pbut) of being peace-loving people is fully in accordance with the teachings of the Qur’an, the Biblical testimony is contrary to it. Many quotations from these Biblical testimonies can be given to substantiate this claim, but considering the length of the answer, I will simply furnish ONE incident that will prove my point, because in this ONE incident, no less than three thousand people were killed by the sword at the command of Biblical Moses. We read:
“(Moses said): ‘Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each killing his brother and friend and neighbour’. The Levites did as Moses commanded, and that day about three thousand of the people died.” (Exodus 32:27-28, NIV)

It is also a well-known fact that the total number of deaths that took place in ALL the wars fought during the time of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was 1018. The biblical quotation given above and many such quotations appear to escape the grasp of those who allege against Muhammad (pbuh), further ignoring the words of Jesus:
“Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgement ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.”
(Matthew 7:1-2 KJV)

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Here are a few.

(This is one of my favorites!)
"Surely the first ass that invented religion ought to be the first ass damned"
Mark Twain

"Properly read, the bible is the most potent force for atheism ever concieved."
Isaac Asimov

"It seems to me that the idea of a personal god is an anthropological concept which I cannot take seriously. I also cannot imagine some will or goal outside the human sphere.
Science has been charge with undermining morality, but the charge is unjust. A mans ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, edication, and social ties and needs: no religious basis in necessary. MAn would be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death."
Albert Enstein

"I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early in life I absented myself from Christian assemblies."
Benjamin Franklin………(I know….he was a diest!)

I have alot more…but I am running out of room.

For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
- Carl Sagan

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